Bad OS Part I: (Yes or No?( and Part II: (What to do about i

Especially if you use the gtk qt theme engine for your gtk/Gnome apps:

http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=9714

 

Hi there.
Let's not forget the purpose of these small laptops.
There not intended to function as a full blown mega laptop/desktop.
They are intended to be a nice gimmick.. take it with you when you travel, you don't want to take 3kg with.
When you want to email, surf the net, make a letter, listen to music, it is all right.
Fot those people who want just that, it is allright.
For those who want to use it full time as a server or work on photo's, buy a bigger laptop.

I liked it a lot when i travel, and besides that, chicks likes then allso( what a nice little laptop that is......)

Greetings. :mrgreen: Frits

p.s. I understand the people who wan't to explore the One to the limits.
They will find nice things we also can profit from.

 

Why not? Maybe not with Windows (because of its resource requirements), but it is certainly as functional as a laptop on Linux. I like it as a laptop replacement because of its size.

I can do what I normally do, for example, writing code+listening to music/watch a movie while a compilation is going on in the background with no skipping. Right now I am compiling Mythfrontend so that I can use my Aspire One as a frontend to MythTV:

http://www.mythtv.org/

around the house.

Maybe not as a full time server (there are already servers running on the Aspire One), but to be able to act like one comes in handy. Also, gimp works fine on it, so why not do some quick photo editing?

 

I'm sorry, but I think this is a rather silly statement. I hope you'll pardon my bluntness, but I can't think of any other way to describe it.

Linpus is designed to run as a single-user system. Your complaints about auto-login are unjustified in that sense. If you want to stop people using your computer, apply a BIOS password (which is what it's for). If you want a multi-user setup, buy a computer or OS that was designed for that.

And there is no IP filtering on Linpus for what is, again, a very simple reason -- in its default configuration it exposes almost no IP ports. If you run app software on the _unmodified_ Linpus system, you have to run it as the unprivieged user `user', so even if you open ports all over the place you're not opening privlieged ports on privileged processes. OK, it's not perfect security, but it blow the socks of a default install of XP.

Actually, I agree that it would have been handy to have IP filtering installed by default, but for the stock, unmodified system used the way it was intended, it's unnecessary.

If you have the technical know-how to create a real security problem on your Linpus maching then you have, I hope, the know how to control it.

As for your Granny, well, all I can say is that your Granny must be much more technically savvy than mine.

 

Because it's colour management is all over the place, and it doesn't support 16 bits-per-channel colour resolution. I would love for Gimp to be a serious alternative to the horribly-expensive Photoshop. Oh, boy, would I.

 

If you want 16 bits-per-channel support and better colour management, you should try Krita:

http://www.koffice.org/krita/

 

It is not so much the auto login in the default setup that upsets me. It is more because of putting "user" in the "wheel" and the "wheel" group have permission to do anything on the system with no password (thus no more separation between root and the other user). Image a malicious script coming through the web or if the user is tricked into running a script containing something like "sudo rm -rf /" or replace critical files on the system with trojans?

True, however It doesn't kill them to include the modules. Also, it doesn't hurt to include a firewall since all OS comes with one these days.

Except the user "user" is not totally unprivileged since "user" is in the "wheel" group and the "wheel" group is setup to do anything as root via sudo with no password.

 

OK, fair point. I guess this has been done to make it easy for users to be able to, e.g., configure power management and stuff from the desktop without being prompted for a password. If you're going to get prompted for a password in such circumsances, I guess it has to be the root password (unless sudo is flexible enough to accept other passwords to give root access?) and Acer doesn't want the user to have the root password. Of course, the way it's currently set up the user effectively has the root password without even having it, if you see what I mean.

Good security and ease of use are not always compatible, unfortunately. The Linpus folks have done the right thing by making the normal desktop user _mostly_ unprivileged -- in the sense that a normal user is never going to be doing day-to-day stuff as root. To expolit the weakness you point out, you'd need to find a way to be able to run sudo without the user's knowledge or consent, just based on, e.g., something in FireFox. Of course there's no way to be sure that's impossible, but it certainly isn't going to be trivially easy.

If you look at other small Linux-based systems that are designed for non-tecchy users (e.g., the Archos internet tablets, or any Linux-based PDA) you'll see that they all run _everything_ as root, just to make life easier for the user. And, in fact, almost every Windows system on the planet is set up this way, too. Compared to this, Linpus is Fort Knox.

As for IP filtering -- yes, it probably wouldn't hurt to have included that. But how would it be configured by default? If you make it too restrictive, you'll get a barrage of tech support calls from people who can't do what they want. If you make it too open, you might as well not bother. It's tricky.

If I were designing a Linux-based PC for non-technical users, most likely I would not have done a lot of things that Linpus has done. But I still content that the design decisions they've made -- although I don't necessarily think they are ideal -- are mostly not stupid, careless decisions.

 

Yeah, Krita is coming along, but it's still not ready to replace photoshop for the work I do, sadly. And it was pretty slow when I last used it. The raw converter alone is alone a good reason to keep using PS. It's just soooo much quicker to sort out things like exposure and white balance with PS than with anything else. Of course, krita and Gimp are both pretty impressive for free applications, and I use Gimp all the time for processing images other than photos.

 

No, one does not have to be root or need a password to do that. The only thing that needs to be done to allow this is to add a stanza to /etc/PolicyKit/PolicyKit.conf.

No, by default the password required by sudo is the user's password.

Unfortunately, it is always a balance between security and ease of use.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&r...hell+script+exploit+browser&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&r...hell+script+exploit+firefox&btnG=Search&meta=

Depending by what you mean by Windows- I have never seen an NT based systems set up this way. Also, this is why Windows is such a big vector for spreading malware on the Internet. Even these days Vista have those annoying popups.

It doesn't need to be set up and running by default.

I haven't really used a Redhat based system since version 5. I just took a look at Fedora's config tools, system-config-firewall looks easy enough even for non-techies to use:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you -- I'm sure that things could have been done to improve security without a severe annoyance to the user.

My contention is really more with your description of Linpus as an unqualified `bad'. As I said, I wouldn't set up a Linux distribution that way, and I suspect that most experienced Linux users would have their own ideas of how to do it. But describing something as `bad' simply because the vendors' idea of the balance between usability and security is not the same as yours is a bit harsh, I think. Particularly when you think how bad it could be.

You say you've never seen a Windows NT system set up with completely open access -- but I don't think ever seen Windows NT in a home environment. For the last ten years or thereabouts, if you bought a home computer from a retailer you would get some flavour of XP with an unrestricted filesystem and a single administrative user. Vista is somewhat better in this respect -- even Microsoft have realized that they have to doe something to reduce their contribution to the Internet cesspit.

And I've yet to see a Linux-based consumer device of any kind where more attention has been payed to security than Linpus. That's not saying very much, of course.

The kind of person who is likely to be running a stock Linpus machine is the same kind of person who would otherwise be running Windows XP Home on a FAT filesystem. Seen in those terms, Linpus represents a net improvement in the overall security level of the Internet, even though it isn't as secure as you would like it to be.

 

@Kevin.
Don't understand me wrong, i also like to take the one to the limits, but,
my family don't.
They just want to email, internet, etc. etc.
They are just fine whit the desktop(the Linpus One) because the can use it easily.
And i think that Acer also is aming at these people, using it out of the box, without to much hassle.
I also have a Macbook, but at home i often take the One, lay on the couch and internet until the battery has gone.
In fact, i am doing it now....

 

I agree with you. My contention is with cpchan who is saying, in essence, that Linpus is `bad' because it ought to have a difference balance between ease of use and security than it actually has. While that might make Linpus less than perfect I think it's a long way from being `bad'.

 

To the original poster:

In the beginning, after a few weeks, I was thinking the same things you are thinking. However, Linux was (and still is) new to me, so I gave the OS a chance. Now, thanks to this forum and other Acer Aspire One users all around the world I have a great laptop, that even though it has a lightweight processor and only 512mb of RAM, is, probably, the most stable PC I've ever had.

I have software to do anything I want to do, and best of all, it's FREE.

Acer needs to do a better job with their custom Linpus, no doubt about it. The Calendar doesn't have tasks, but you can download Sunbird. MobileMe isn't Linux-happy, but you can access it through WINE + Firefox 3. VLC is the media player to have if you want to watch a movie now and then, and there is a very good post regarding it's installation.

 

Also to the original poster:

After 2 years with Ubuntu on a Dell Inspiron 9400. PCLOS 2007 on a Desktop, and the Customised Xandros setup on the Asus Eee. I have am begining to get my bearings using Linux. The Linpus set up is not a Bad OS. Yes it is different and possibly not as straight forward to understand as windoze, and maybe it is a little flakey in parts but sheese it fires up fast, mines on the web in under 40 seconds. By using Opera for both browsing and email I've side stepped the weak email client, then by installing Abiword and Gnumeric from the Livna repos I've ducked the flakey OpenOffice apps and finally by installing Vlc I get all the media playback capability I need.

Heres a little tale.
After I upgraded my Dell Laptop from Ubuntu Fiesty to Hardy in April this year my wifi broke, the thing would crash for no reason, it would also freeze solid without warning. I was very dissolutioned and very nearly abandoned Ubuntu. But instead by using the ubuntu forums I fixed the wifi and successive updates cured the the crashing and freezing, the Dell is now rock solid.

So I suppose my advice is to stick with Linpus Lite use the forums not just here but the Fedora ones too, and mold the AA1 into machine you want it to be. You never know you may learn something along the way and who knows you may actually enjoy the ride a little too.

When another distro supports ALL the hardware out of the box and then start up as quickly as Linpus does now I will consider swopping OS not before.

 

I'm happy enough with Linpus, but you can make _any_ Linux start as fast as Linpus if you know what you're doing. All you need to do is to fiddle the start-up scripts so that (a) the X desktop is initializaed as early as possible and (b) services that are used less frequently are deferred until the desktop is running. This latter would include things like printing, for example. You almost certainly don't need this the moment the desktop is visible, so you might as well defer it.

The Linpus guys have done some good work in figuring out a start-up order that gets the desktop up quickly without breaking stuff. But you will occasionally find that the system is not fully stable when the desktop is ready. For example, if I boot and then start Thunar very quickly, and then click the label for an external USB disk, I'll get an error from HAL (the hardware asbtraction layer). Presumably something is not ready at that point.

My point is that what Linpus does is not magic -- it's just clever tweaking, with a view to getting those things running early that are most likely to be used first.

On the other hand, I don't see why I should throw away all the good work the Linpus people have done in this area, and do it all again with another distribution, even though I know how. Life is short.

 

I've been a Linux user for just over 12 months and run Mint, Xbuntu & Fedora on a number of older boxes, desktops and laptops.

Having followed this thread, I've stuck with Linpus so far on my One ..... however, I've been disappointed that wireless does not always start reliably .... I think this is fundamental .... without a network connection the One is not very useful! It appears that the code behind the Linpus startup needs improving.

I'm glad that my experiences with Linux prior to the One were very positive. I think Linpus may have put me off Linux if this were my first exposure to the OS.

 

Is the OS Bad? Yes.

But not because it's a locked-down, cut-down implementation of Fedora that makes it annoying to customise with even the simplest apps or adjustments (FF3, Thunderbird, Bluefish, Twinkle VoIP phone, PuTTY, RDP./VNC client and some SQL query tools) - this is taking the OS well beyond it's design brief BUT...

It's bad because I can expect that approximately every 2-3 weeks a small part of a file or folder somewhere in the .config directory will get corrupted and one or more of the following will occur:

- Wifi starts re-prompting me for WPA keys
- The volume control icon will disappear
- Touchpad/keyboard won't work
- I open up my netbook to discover it did not go into suspend when I closed it
- I get HAL errors
- I cannot access my SD card
- The /home/user/ folder structure doesn't show up in the file manager
- The terminal window cannot make it to a prompt - which kinda puts a showstopper on any quick remedial action

When this happens, I either have to get to a terminal prompt (if I can) to fix things, run the recovery process from USB and setup everything again OR wait for the unit to 'double boot' on power up when it has detected the mess and so it restores the config from local backup.

Hacking the unit to make it do what I want is fine with me, but I just wish the whole desktop/hardware environment and config was more robust.

 

Not one of these things has ever happened to me. Are you sure this is an OS problem, and not the result of something you're doing to it? And it's incorrect to say that Linpus is `locked down'. On the contrary -- it's completely open: there's not even a password for sudo.

 

You need to read the many other posts hereabouts about others having similar problems - you may be a lucky one.

By 'locked down' I am referring more to the desktop interface - rather than the core OS - and the way that Acer really don't want anyone to change anything. I can understand that.

I don't consider I am doing anything radical with the unit apart from use it - I am not a 'hacker' by heart - the last 'crash' happened this past Sunday when I opened the One to play some MP3s. I had closed it about one hour earlier after checking my mail.

Cheers.