Netbook freezes randomly

I fully agree. However, the representatives at Acer say "we don't allow exchanges; Only repairs of your current system." If only they knew how to fix them!

At least one person in the blogosphere has said that Acer would only give you a new/different laptop if they failed 3 times (or more) in trying to repair it and you yelled at them. That's about 3 months without your computer, about $50 in shipping costs, and many hours of your time on the phone or in post offices.

If anyone feels like sitting through a 2-3 year long class action lawsuit, then yes, they might chance their tune. But Acer is betting that nobody would spend that much time or energy on a sub $400 laptop. And they are probably right.

 

Ok, so enough of my carping, if we are going to fix this problem, we have to figure out what is wrong. So what IS wrong? Specifically what is this "lockup" that everyone is talking about? Is it:

0) A freeze of the normal screen that has some mechanism to recover without reboot
1) A BSOD
2) A system lock up to a blank screen that needs 6 secs of time on the power switch to switch off
3) A total system lockup that needs all power disconnected (batteries included) and hold down the power switch

The process that I am starting is called Correlation Analysis, it is data driven and not theory driven. Cough up the data and we have a shot at solving the problem. The next set of questions I am going to ask will be about what exhibits the problem, when is it seen, does it change in frequency of occurrence over a period of time (like when did you first see it, is it happening more often as time goes on), and what specific model and configuration (the numbers on the side of the box kind of configuration information) of 751 is showing the problem, including memory config (original or after market, RAM and HDD), system OS (original or reload of some sort and which OS is it), additives (setFSG, iTunes, and background processes like Windows Indexing, Windows Defender and the like). And after we have all that information, we get to start asking the interesting questions.

A journey begins with a single step, but watch out for the banana peel.

 

I'm all for some statistical analysis here. I added one more to your list (#4).

0) A freeze of the normal screen that has some mechanism to recover without reboot
1) A BSOD
2) A system lock up to a blank screen that needs 6 secs of time on the power switch to switch off
3) A total system lockup that needs all power disconnected (batteries included) and hold down the power switch
4) A sudden system shutdown and restart

My system does number 4 most often. More rarely it does number 1 within a few minutes of startup. My description of #4 is:
- Screen goes black instantly and system goes quiet, then the system reboots on it's own with an error message and offer to boot into safe mode. Safe Mode diagnostics under Windows Vista list the problem as potentially being a "critical power failure".

These symptoms can happen on battery or wall power. While in sleep mode or while active. While cool or hot. With new or original drivers. In at least 3 operating systems (I've only used Vista personally).

My system has 2GB RAM, 250GB HDD, Windows Vista Home Basic, no bluetooth. Those are the factory parts. Restoring from the restore partition results in the same behavior. Updating drivers and Windows Updates does not help the problem. Pulling out the battery and running only on wall power doesn't help either. I tried turning off all non-essential windows Vista startup services and all non-microsoft services, the problem still returned.

The frequency for me is usually 1-2 times per week (hence I didn't detect it early on), but on one particular afternoon I was getting freezing/restarting every few minutes! Restoring from the restore partition brought me back to the1-2 times per week freezing/restart cycle. For some reason it never cut the power while the low-level restore partition software was doing it's magic, despite freezing every few minutes in Windows.

Truly a head scratcher! There seems to be some relationship to software, but at the same time, people with three different versions of Windows are experiencing the same problem. Can anyone verify that it occurs in Linux?. I wonder if it only happens when a certain piece of hardware is accessed, hence my ability to restore from the restore partition, despite no way to work in windows for more than a few minutes on that day... Or possibly pure chance...

 

I did a complete driver update on every piece of hardware in the netbook, and disabled the Aero interface. It still froze.

I recommend going to the acer support and filling in a repair form. If your netbook is still under warranty (which it should be since it can only be a few months old), you should have it repaired for free.

 

I get number 2 alot. Even though I don't really understand what you mean with the blank screen. The screen just locks. So basicly the whole system locks up, but I can still use the 6 secs on the powerbutton to reboot the system. So I would say:
2) A total system lockup that needs 6 secs of time on the power switch to switch off

I bought the European model with the 160 GB HD, 1 GB RAM and Windows XP Home Edition. (White model)

My machine had the default setup when the first crash appeared. I removed all the extra bloatware en upgraded the RAM to 2 GB.

I Have to say that the first crash happened after installing Google Chrome and with the powercable attached. Programs currently installed are Chrome, Office 2007 (only Word, Excel), NOD32, SABnzb+. I still run the default OS that came with the netbook. I've tried restoring it but it didn't solve the problem. I did not try any other OS on the machine.

I don't use the netbook fulltime so it's hard to point out the frequency of the freezes. I own mine for almost 3 weeks and I guess I had about 8 freezes. In most cases the netbook lay flat on a wooden table.

 

Mine is very similar to what capactus reported. So rather #2 - a total system lockup that needs 6s of time on the power switch to switch off. The only thing I can do after freezing is use Fn+F6 to turn the display on/off - nothing else. However, I also had already #1. I have never had #0, #3 nor #4.

I have the 751h-1893 (250 GB HDD, 2 GB RAM, 6 cell battery), I have nothing changed on the hardware, however, immediately after I got it I removed vista and installed windows xp pro as well as all updates for the os and each and every driver.

Concerning the frequency of freezing: as stated in an earlier post, when doing a skype call (with or without webcam) my computer will freeze up to 4 times per hour but not in constant time intervals - sometimes after 9 seconds sometimes 15 minutes, the longest I made it was about 50 min without freezing. Here it makes no difference whether I use battery or external power nor whether the netbook is on a wooden table or lifted for better ventilation. Not doing a skype call (skype can be on the entire day and also chatting is fine), out of the other 4 freezings per week 3 occur when using chrome.

 

I get freeze no.2, the screen freezes and the only way to restart is to press the On-Key for 6 seconds.
Reinstalled all drivers from Acer website and still freezes.
I wrote Acer via support form but no response since days...
Today i'll carry the Acer back and replace it with another netbook.

 

It took Acer three working days to respond to my repair form, but the send-in and repair was a smooth ride. Patience ;-)

 

I have the exact same model number but I kept Vista on my machine - and get #4 freezes as described earlier. So it seems the "type of freezing" may have to do with whether you are running Windows Vista (like me) or Windows XP (like you). The operating systems probably have different routines they go through when there is a hardware/software failure. Vista usually restarts automatically with the option of booting to safe mode. Windows XP always just plain freezes. Still, I bet the cause of the "freezing" is the same.

 

I now did a system recovery, maybe this helps.

Is anybody of you using a Codec Pack or Media Player Classic?
After uninstalling K-Lite Codec Pack i got a registry error which was fixed after uninstall.
Maybe a standard app is causing these random freezes, or does the freeze also occur on a fresh installed system without apps installed?
My 751h has XP installed by default (Germany)

 

I did a fresh install of Windows Vista from the recovery partition and didn't do anything except let Windows Update bring the machine to the present with security updates (didn't allow non-critical updates or driver updates). Still froze after a few days of use. I did install Firefox and Foxit PDF Reader, flashplayer, and Sun Java for Firefox. And I removed all of the games, trial antivirus, and other bloatware. So that's not exactly a pure test of the machine in it's original state.

 

The problem is hardware-related, not software-related.

 

I have the AO751H-1893.
First unit I got I had the no. 3 issue. Had to remove the battery, power cable to turn it back on.
Second and third unit replacement I got have the no. 2 issue and I get 10-15 lock ups within 6 hours of use.
I sent mine for repair and still patiently waiting for my netbook.

One thing I noticed, when I turn on the safe mode with networking, it didn't lock up.
I reinstalled the OS (Vista) and it was still the same so I gave up and sent it to Acer.
One more important thing if I may add... when my netbook starts to freeze, the fan gets a little louder and sometimes I hear
something ticking underneath the memory slot.

One more tip, if you are going to send it for repair, don't use the online form because they don't usually respond right away.
I called the customer support number and they gave me a shipping reference number right away. I didn't pay for shipping too because I jut bought it
not over a month ago so they pay for shipping charges. Its just hard to understand the representatives who answer on the other end because they have thick accents (Indians) but after talking to them, I went straight to fedex and shipped it within an hour. Takes 7-10 days for repair.
I'm just waiting for mine and they will also email you if they are about to ship it back to you.

 

Ok, I read back over the information already on the thread and the new stuff from yesterday and discovered that I did have enough information, so I have a hypothesis.

Thing 1: It isn't Windows, not any of the versions.
If it were Windows, every unit and every unit from Asus should have the same problems more or less uniformly. It's not happening that way.

Thing 2: It isn't the Z520 or US15W/GMA 500.
If it were, Asus would be having the same problems with their 1101, and they are not. Their owners may grouse about how fast they can O/C before things lock up, but nothing like the problems that we are seeing.

Thing 3: It's probably not the drivers.
The base drivers for both the Acer and Asus machines are the same Intel drivers, and while a certain amount of rewashing is to be expected, not enough (probably) to account for what we are seeing.

Thing 4: The camera is known to croak the system so fast that you often can't get comfortable before it freezes.
Interestingly, the camera does more than one thing. It loads up the US15W/GMA 500, it loads up the HDD, it loads up the network, and it loads up the power bus that it runs on and all the other power busses of all the other things they are connected to.

Thing 5: There are a lot of units that are failing, but by no means every one. Apparently it is possible to make a 751 that works fine, even to the camera.

Thing 6: A machine that was returned for service for freeze-ups had it's fan (?!) replaced.
Fans do two things, they move air and they load down the power bus that they are connected to. No one has even hinted that the Z520 is running too hot.

Thing 7: A machine that was returned for service had it's HDD replaced, even though it didn't seem like it needed it.
HDD's do several things, they take, they give, and they load down their power bus, which may happen to be the same bus that services the camera and the fan (or not)

Thing 8: Systems are crashing when coming out of suspend or hibernation.
This the very time when both the fan and the HDD are sucking hardest at their respective (and possibly the same) power bus as they spin up to running speed.

Thing 9: A system failed with a telltale sound just before croak-out, a clicking from near the memory.
These systems don't have many things that can make any noise at all, only the fan, the HDD, and the speaker. The speaker isn't near the memory, and the fan would probably make a buzz rather than a click, but one thing that will make a clicking sound is a HDD trying to repeatedly emergency park it's heads as the power drops below what is required for successful operation. This particular noise was coupled with a noticeable speed up of the fan sound which meant that the fan was pulling more power at the same time.

Thing 10: A general question - If you are running in Safe mode, does that mean that you do not load the camera drivers, which means that the camera is not pulling any power? A more specific question, if you are running in Safe mode, does that reduce the power drain on the system in general (network, sound, camera,...), because someone noted that they didn't croak when they were in Safe mode and they did croak otherwise.

Thing 11: At least one system was reported to have given a "Critical Power Failure" indication before (during?) a croak-out. I didn't even know that Windows was that smart, or cared.


With the above list, I am going to go out on a limb and guess that the power system was slightly underdesigned by Acer and that if a system gets the combination of a fan drawing a little too much power and a HDD drawing a little too much power, that some level of failure can happen. Add to this the extra load the camera puts on such a borderline system and you might have a shot at guessing why the camera is such a problem.

If I have guessed right, Acer has a serious problem because they really can't "fix" this issue. They can cherry pick fans and HDD units that pull less power (I can only image how much fun that will be at the repair station) but eventually the fan gets dirty and starts pulling more than it should and away you go. Re-engineering the power bus system in the field would not be much fun, assuming it is even possible.

So that is my guess and I do hope I am wrong because it is a miserable thing if it is true. I look forward to your comments.

 

A power-related issue seems very likely given your analysis, and the fact the Windows Vista (if you restart into safe mode to see the error) reports a critical power failure. That would explain why various "fixes" seem to work for a while. By inadvertently influencing the power system, they could make freezing/power-failure more or less likely. However, that still wouldn't' fully solve the problem.

Thank you "Nick" for all of your work on this!

 

I forgot to mention, one more reason why I sent mine for repair is the webcam.
Yup, I'm beginning to believe the webcam has issues too.
When I use skype or yahoo messenger with webcam, it will work for a minute or two then the video freezes. This happened at all times.

When working on safe mode with networking, I believe, the system doesn't load the sound and webcam. Never had a lock up, not once when running on it, even for hours and when my netbook gets hot at the bottom.

Regarding the sound I hear coming from underneath, I'm sorry I made a mistake. I should've written I hear a ticking or clicking sound in the fan and not under the memory slot. My bad.
When my netbook freezes, sometimes I hear that clicking sound in the fan specially when it gets hot.
There was also a time I thought when I was using the power adaptor and when it gets pretty hot, my netbook tends to freeze a lot but later on,
even if I'm only running on battery, it would still freeze.

I even bought a chill mat because after an hour use of this thing it gets too hot and the extra fans make it cooler, but still I get lock ups.

You have a good point about the camera. Never thought it can BE one of the reasons the system freezes.

I've spoken to many Acer representatives and they can only tell me to do a BIOS update (the 751's came with the 3204) and the 3206 is available on their support website. They also told me to drain the battery, which didn't help at all and perform a recovery - that too didn't solve anything.

One thing I also notice, during hot days (ranging from 85F-90F) and when I turn on my netbook in a room without any AC, it locks up after 10-15 minutes.
When i am inside a room with AC, my netbook froze after a couple of hours. I don't know if it has any relevance to the lock up issues but it happened most of the time to me.

Thank you for doing an extensive research about this.
I am also hoping ACER is doing their homework.

 

I don't use the camera so I uninstalled it when I got my 751. Could this be why mine does not freeze? I also have not had a heat problem.

 

The hot day issue could be due to the fan using extra power, and then causing an overload, leading to a crash. Same for activating the webcam and sound card (i.e. not running in safe mode for you). These could all potentially be traced back to a power related issue...

 

Here's a little additional info from Acer's support web site under FAQ's for the 751h regarding the camera. I discounted it because the camera seems to work fine even with the Creative drivers (using Live Messenger with Windows 7 RTM). I also seem to experience more lock ups when syncing my PDA using the USB ports, which has also led me to the thought of a power issue:

[Update]: I rolled back the driver to the Microsoft version and it SEEMS like the fan is coming on less frequently and slower. I'll try some PDA syncs later to see what happens.

Q: Microsoft driver update may disable web camera.

A: The Web camera driver on the Vista Home Basic is being accidentally replaced during a Microsoft update.

The original driver is
Microsoft
6/21/2006
6.0.6001.18000

The driver after the update is
Creative Technology
7/18/2008
1.0.3.720

Solutions:
Initiate a driver rollback in Device Manager or Manually uninstall the creative driver and reinstall the original camera driver.

The driver can be found on the applications disk (via eRecovery) or at our website under ( Drivers Downloads )

 

I think the easiest way to think of this is that as delivered by Acer, some of the 751's are on the verge of a "brown-out". Anything that increases the power draw for these machines, like a warm day spinning up the fan, or remember that some people have reported issues with iTunes (if you have iTunes you just might be playing music, a lot, and sucking more power into the audio amp), or adding more memory (?!) might just tip it over to a black-out.

Hunting up low power parts that can be easily substituted, like DRAM, HDD (SSD?), or WiFi cards might actually help, assuming that the parts are connected to the specific power busses that are drooping. but you've got to really want to spend money to go that far. FYI, the average power draw of the SSD is lower than that of a HDD, but the peak draw may not be, so if the problem is power droop at peak draw, there might not be an improvement. Note also that everyone's favorite DRAM upgrade might not be such a good thing on these marginal machines if the larger capacity memory is accompanied by a larger power draw.