Why is wifi on Ubuntu/AAO so difficult?

I have the Acer Aspire One AOA110-1588 with 8 gig ssd.

I want to have an "always works" netbook and I don't want to spend time building sources to install to fix things that keep breaking. I don't want to run Windows XP as it tends to break all by itself from time to time as well.

1) I installed Ubuntu 8.10 on my AAO and it worked for a few days (after installing ath5k) but suddenly the wifi died.
2) So I wound up giving Linpus a try with no luck then...
3) back to windows (after making a fat32 partition from a 2004 era Ultimate Boot CD) but at least the wifi was working again.
4) Lastly, I ran the Ubuntu 8.10 install from inside windows from a live sd card and picked "install inside windows". I did this in case my wifi stopped working again. I followed all the steps except I skipped the updates. Wifi was working fine. For a day. This morning, it crapped out AGAIN.
5) So this time I went and got wicd and several boots later I got wifi working for a third time. I don't want to take this AAO back and get an EEE but I'm looking for a trouble-free turnkey experience here. This is getting old.

My kernel is 2.6.27-9-generic.
I'm running ath5k with ath-pci blacklisted and ath-hal manually blacklisted. I'm now running wicd. The next step would be to dump ath5k and go get madwifi but madwifi won't build for me...

When you go get madwifi, they say right there that ath5k is supposed to be better. Right now I don't think I need madwifi but I've had 4 days of wifi not working and only 2 days of wifi working so I'd like to know how to build madwifi in case I need it. I'm also open to other suggestions to get and keep this ironed out. I don't want to be sitting at Panera the next time my wifi goes belly up. BTW, I tried ifup wlan0. I tried a number of sudo command line things to get the ath5k driver up and running after the last time it crashed, including sudo modprobe ath5k but I've never been able to recover wifi functionality once it decides to randomly stop working. Any suggestions?

Yes, I've searched and read through the various wifi tutorials and threads but if you think I've missed something, please let me know.

 

I'm pretty sure I have a robust work-a-round for the very annoying problem that the Acer sometimes looses it wireless connection. It's mentioned somewhere else on this forum: disconnect your power + battery for some seconds, replug everything, boot and very big chance wireless is back again.

It seems that the Acer stores some information in RAM that needs to be reset.

I have the same feeling about returning it for an Asus Eee, but for now I can live with the "unplugging" approach.

(110Aw, 8G Samsung SSD, 1,5G RAM, Ubuntu 8.10, sickboy's optimized kernel)

 

Well, I sort of agree to get it set up initially is difficult. I first tried the LPIA version of the distro but I could not get ath5k installed. ath5k was removed from Intrepid because of issues. It is in backports but I never could get backports installed on the lpia version. There were dependency issues (not to mention the fact that the lpia package is missing the kernel to begin with). I was able to use ndiswrapper and the windows driver, but it took 30s or more to connect (WPA2 personal security).

I next tried the regular i386 ISO. I updated to the latest stuff. When I installed backports, still no ath5k. It turns a version of it got installed, but not for the kernel version I was running. I found backports generic for mykernel version and then it got installed. With ath5k, wireless connects quickly. With the sickboy kernel (see http://www.aspireoneuser.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7560&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)it is almost immediate. A couple of times, I have had it not connect. As others have indicated, when this occurs do a cold reboot, which apparently means shutting down the machine and letting it sit 30s or so (some say remove the battery too but I have not found this to be necessary). I have had this happen a couple of times already (I only got the machine yesterday but have probably rebooted 200 times as I tweaked stuff).

From what I have read, especially https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AspireOne110L, ath5k is your best bet on Intrepid. Like I said, I tried ndiswrapper and it was not great. Of course maybe I didn't have the best windows driver. But I prefer not to use ndiswrapper with windows drivers if I can help it anyway. I have not tried madwifi; I heard it is a good option on earlier Ubuntu releases (e.g. Hardy).

For AAO owners the decision to omit ath5k from Intrepid (apparently there were bugs) caused a lot of heartache. For me, other than a couple of times (probably when I did not shut down cleanly) when I had to resort to cold reboot, ath5k has worked very well for me, so far.

 

I tried ath5k, but after a lot of trouble I switched completely to madwifi.

What I did:

Code:

cd ~
mkdir source
cd source
wget [url]http://snapshots.madwifi-project.org/madwifi-hal-0.10.5.6-current.tar.gz[/url]
tar -jxvf madwifi<tab>
cd madwifi<tab>
make
sudo make install

<tab> should autocomplete the tar.gz archive and in the next command to the full directory

After that you have to make sure 'ath_pci' is in /etc/modules and is not blacklisted, also you have to check ath5k is not loaded. (not in /etc/modules and not active in restricted drivers)
After reboot wifi should work, if not you might try to shutdown and remove the battery for a couple of seconds like described above. In case of compilation errors you might miss some packages (I guess header files, correct me if I'm wrong)

Maybe also nice to know: the wifi leds can also work: I have in /etc/rc.local (sudo nano /etc/rc.local)

Code:

# wifi leds
sysctl -w dev.wifi0.ledpin=3
sysctl -w dev.wifi0.softled=1

When there is an updated kernel you need to recompile the driver to make it work again:

Code:

cd ~/source
make clean
make
sudo make install

and reboot afterwards

 

You can install dkms, so every time you get a kernel update, the madwifi gets recompile. Or, if you find a kernel that ROCKs you can lock that kernel in synaptic, so no more kernel updates unless you want them.

 

I lost wifi again today. Rather than go around trying to fix things I simply shut down and restarted my AAO. It came right back. This is annoying and so windows 3.1 for workgroups if you know what I mean. Wireless networking is an inalienable right and (arguably) the only reason for a netbook to exist. If anybody learns of a fix for this please point it out in this thread.

 

Yep, unfortunately it's called "Windows". I'm often stunned by the geek arrogance that allows Linux users to suppose they're using a better OS. :roll:

 

Sorry! I misread the title. I thought it was "Why is wifi on AAO so difficult?". Thus my original answer about using Mandriva 2009 Gnome.I don't understand why it is so bad with Ubuntu.

I tried other distros and faced the same wireless issues and was also frustrated. Then I tried Mandriva 2009 Gnome, the only thing I did to get the wireless working was to right click on the network icon select wireless networks and the network I wanted to connect to. This opened a window that required me to enter my WAP code and hit enter. A couple seconds later and I was connected and have been connected ever since, even after several system updates.

 

I meant a fix within Linux. The reason we need a fix is the ath5k driver is not very stable. That's not an OS issue per se. BTW, I still have Windows on my AAO. I have not had a chance to test whether or not the wifi craps out under Windows because I don't run Windows that often.

You mention arrogance. Hmmm. When you write code and compile it against a number of targets, you begin to appreciate the underlying quality of the build tools and the underlying OS. Build tools for Windows are top notch. Windows OS, OTOH is very low quality. This is not a fanboy rallying cry or an unfounded accusation. Pick up a copy of the Windows OS admin and internals training and the Linux OS admin and internals training and compare the architecture and topology side by side.

If you are objective, you will realize are looking at the difference between a shaky leanto and a concrete bunker. This is not because M$ is stupid, lazy or evil, but because they insist on supporting legacy code going all the way back to DOS. Apple happily burned this "legacy" bridge way back in 2001 with OS X and moved to Unix. Rumor had it M$ planned to burn this "legacy" bridge with Windows 7. Lately I'm hearing they will merely patch some Vista holes instead. Nothing would make me happier than seeing M$ finally cave in and adopt Unix as their underlying OS. Regardless it makes no diff to me because I've moved on.

We are spending our own money on these machines. I don't like having to send a portion of my check up to Redmond, Wa to support a development effort that is not bearing fruit for me only to get my hands on a desirable piece of hardware. I've got an SSD AAO which came with XP but I now have it dual booting with Linux. If I could have bought a Linpus AAO in the flesh, I would have grabbed it. The only companies I'm willing to mail order from are Dell and Apple. If I could get a 120 gig AAO with Linux, I would be ecstatic, but they don't offer it. I really don't care which OS is superior, I only care about getting things done. Yes, I'm annoyed about the wifi but it's not a deal breaker for me.

Yes I can switch back to Windows whenever I like but I choose to stick with what works for me. That doesn't make me arrogant. It just makes me me. I don't think this board was intended to host flame wars so I hope my answer is satisfactory without starting a long debate. If you think this needs to go beyond this post, pm me and perhaps we can carry on our discussion via pm rather than wasting people's time when they come looking for wifi help in this thread.

 

Well I'll be damned...

I have fought with Ubuntu and pretty much every other distro with no wifi success on my AAO 150. I even updated my BIOS to 3309 and that didn't help either.

Just for grins and giggles after I read your post, I downloaded Mandriva 2009 Gnome and tried it.

Well, lo and behold- 3 mouse clicks and it connected to my network and the internet. Just like you said.

I really prefer Ubuntu because I'm a little more familiar with it, but I think I could learn to like Mandriva... especially if the wifi is stable.

Thanks for the tip. It's nice to see the wireless finally work in anything other than XP! LOL

Candice in PA

 

I downloaded Mandriva, which cannot peacefully coexist with windows so I blew away my windows partition again. And for naught. My wifi worked during the live session with Mandriva but as soon as I had the damn thing booted my wifi quit working. What a ripoff. I checked to see what driver Mandriva was using and it was using the same ath5k I've been having all this trouble with. BTW, whenever I'm in windows, the wifi is working without a hiccup. There was an option in Mandriva to use an "ndis wrapper" but I don't have easy access to the windows driver since I had to nuke windows to get Mandriva to install.

I'm still tempted to take this Aspire One back and get the EEE with the 120 gig drive. Hopefully the wifi chipset in the EEE isn't as obscure as this chipset we are saddled with in the Aspire One. I'm going through my third (thirteenth?) Ubuntu install but this time I'll keep at it until I figure out how to build and install madwifi and flush that ath5k down the same toilet as the "Atheros wireless card" Ubuntu 8.10 tries to use when you first install it. I guess I can install backports-interpid temporarily until I figure out madwifi. So far people on the 2008 distro of Mandriva are saying it works flawlessly but the 2009 distro has problems. Some are talking about bios updates and all kinds of hoops they are jumping through to get the wifi working. Clearly ath5k just isn't good enough (yet).

 

Well here I am on my 4th install of Ubuntu. The wifi is working for now. I will report if there are further "ups and downs" but I'd rather reboot now and then than go to another distro. Some time this weekend I must decide whether to return this unit in favor of one with the hard drive. I still like the idea of having 120 gig to play with. I'd certainly have room to try multiple distros at one time.

This time I followed the instructions precisely and the only step I omitted was converting my filesystem to ext2. I have all the updates and wifi working with the mediocre wifi manager that comes with ubuntu. No need to get wicd even if I like it more because it didn't solve the problem with ath5k. I wish there was a way to restart wifi when it quits, by simply using an ifdown followed by an ifup or modprobe ath5k or some other such thing.

 

Damn.

I only used the live cd of Mandriva, and the wifi was working fine. BTW I also was able to get it working out of the box with Fedora 10 too. But these are the only 2 that have worked so far.

As far as obscure chipset- you may be right about that. It isn't ALL Atheros chipsets that have issues. I have an Acer Aspire 3624 notebook. I've had it for a couple of years. It came with XP Home, fat32 file system, and an 80 gig drive in 2 partitions.

I have been getting ready to blow away the XP install anyway on that laptop, because after 2.5 years, it's become unstable. You know how XP gets after a while...

Anyhow- just for fun- I decided to install Ubuntu Intrepid on my second partition and play around with Linux for real for the first time ever. Bear in mind that I am a total n00b. I know nothing about Linux. I knew it would run because I tried the live cd and the machine ran quite well. And it has an Atheros wifi chipset. Everything works. Not only works, but works well. Ubuntu installed alongside XP with no complaints, and I just don't have any problems with it on that machine. It's actually such a pleasure to use that I usually boot up into Ubuntu instead of XP because it's faster and more stable.

I don't understand it. If they can get it to work with one Atheros chip why not the other???? I have a Belkin usb wifi adapter, and I may plug that in and give it a shot. Some others I have read are actually replacing their internal wifi adapters with Intel ones. But overall I think the Atheros chips are pretty good, with an excellent range, and I really don't want to rip apart my machine... :?

I haven't done the madwifi thing, because I honestly really can't handle it. I am too much of a beginner. Having to use CLI and "compile" stuff- no, not for me.

They really need to simplify doing stuff like this. I guess the geeks will see it as "dumbing down" Linux, but damn- it would makes things a whole lot easier for the rest of us trying to learn it. :|

Candice in PA

 

I thought I posted this earlier but I must have forgotten to hit "submit" or perhaps I hit that useless save button instead. Anyway, I took back my AAO and got a hard drive based machine. Much better. Now I have room for multiple Linux flavors until I get this figured out better. All I can say is Ubuntu wifi is working well enough for me to post this from my hotel room at the Kalihari resort. The wifi here is wide open (unencrypted/unsecured) and the problems I've been having are on a closed network.

And there's no way I would have brought my macbook here. The Macbooks' not that heavy but 2.2 pounds is lighter than a hardcover book!

 

Hello, I'm a new one owner, (2 days old) as a ubuntu user first thing i did was install 8.10 on the acer, I used a USB CD drive method, and as per this ubuntu guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AspireOne I installed the Madwifi drivers and so far have not encountered any problems with disconnection, hope it stays that way

also in that guide they note that

hope the guide helps if you havent tried it, I'm loving my new aspire one (8gb ssd 1 gb ram model), so far the only plans i have for it are a 6 cell battery and either a real hard disk or CF mod in the future

my wireless network is using WPA2 PSK as well all is fine, worked well on wep networks as well so far

 

I'm using the madwifi driver (ath_pci) with no problems what so ever.

OS is UNR (basically Ubuntu 8.04.1 lpia).

I had problems with the UNR's basic ath_hal, it kept loosing connections etc...

 

I'm freezing my a$$ off here in Pennsylvania- so rub it in why don't ya' about being in a nice warm lovely place.... LOL

So what did you exchange it for? Is it another AAO?

My model is the AAO 150, with the 160 gig hard drive, 6 cell battery, and XP Home.

I would really like to dual boot with Ubuntu if I could just get the @#$%&! wifi to work!

FWIW- I tried the live cd of Ubuntu 9.04 beta, and that doesn't work either. If they can get it to work in Fedora and Mandriva, why can't they get it to work in Ubuntu?

Hey- have a nice time. Take a dip in the pool for me. LOL

Candice in PA

 

I tried the madwifi stuff on my AAO with 120GB disk under Ubuntu 8.10 desktop.
It worked with no security on router but.... it would not work when WEP was enabled on my router.
Its fine it you want a network where anyone can log in but with a WEP key that is shared in ASCII then it plain doesnt work!!

Any suggestions about getting it to work with WEP 128bit Passphrase.?
It seems as though the pasphase is either converted to hex or is not sent correctly.
No I dont want to chaneg the style of key.
It should work and it does work with all my other machines (OSX and Windows) even the AAO when running under Linpus with standard drivers.

What is it that these wifi drivers are so flaky under Ubuntu?.
I've have tried all the different solutions but no go with WEP encryption.

Suggestions please... this is driving me nuts.

 

Sort of got it working... probably just temporary though...

I installed Intrepid to a thumb drive, and booted up from that.

I followed these directions from another thread:

"Compiling madwifi is unnecessary, as said above, installing the backports will make wifi work just fine. Assuming you installed Ubuntu 8.10, installing the backports should work just fine.

1. Go to System/Admin/Hardware drivers. You should have two items there relating to your wireless device, Disable "Support for Atheros 802.11 wireless LAN cards"
2. Restart
3. After restarting/logging in, open a terminal and type sudo apt-get install linux-backports-modules-intrepid-generic
4. Restart again
5. Once logged in, you should be able to see Wireless networks, join networks, etc."

It didn't seem to work at first. I did see that the wireless was not greyed out this time when right clicking on the network icon. I tried to configure my wireless network, but it wouldn't connect until I plugged in an external Belkin usb wifi adapter. Then BOTH network cards started showing.

The Belkin card was recognised immediately and connected fine. I unplugged it, then left clicked the network icon and clicked on my Atheros card (which for some reason was listed as a Foxconn adapter) and it worked.

It's been stable for about 2 hours. Will it work after I shut down? Probably not, but who knows. I just thought that this was an interesting experiment and I'd share the results.

Candice in PA

 

I traded the 8 gig ssd model for the 160 gig hard drive model. I had to pay restocking which really wasn't that much.

Here is the post I forgot to hit "submit"...

Successfully used wifi at Kalahari in Ohio as mentioned earlier in the tread, but have yet to get it working with wpa-psk at home. If the wifi was less problematic, I could see Ubuntu on Acer Aspire One becoming my main machine 'cause I'd have it with me all the time. It's about the size of a hardcover journal.